Leadership expert and author Morag Barrett joins Doug Utberg to challenge the myth that “real connection means keeping the peace.” Together they unpack why the best teams — and the strongest friendships — aren’t the ones that avoid conflict, but the ones that use it to grow stronger.
Morag, founder of SkyTeam, shares how two decades of leadership research revealed a truth few executives want to hear: false harmony kills innovation. Real connection, she says, requires friction, feedback, and the courage to say the hard things before a crisis hits.
Doug reflects on his own journey from people-pleasing to presence — and how letting go of performance-based validation can create genuine relationships at work and in life. The result? A conversation that’s equal parts psychology, leadership, and personal transformation — reminding us that the path to trust runs straight through tension.
TL;DR
Connection without conflict isn’t trust — it’s tolerance.
Great teams talk about tension before it breaks them.
Supporters agree; allies challenge and grow with you.
Presence beats performance — every time.
Friction, handled with care, forges deeper bonds.
Memorable lines
“Connection isn’t soft — it’s steel wrapped in empathy.”
“Supporters make you comfortable; allies make you better.”
“False harmony is where innovation goes to die.”
“You can’t build trust if no one’s willing to be uncomfortable.”
Guest
Morag Barrett — Founder and CEO of SkyTeam, leadership expert, keynote speaker, and author of You, Me, We: Why We All Need a Friend at Work (and How to Show Up as One).
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Why it matters
Teams don’t fail from lack of skill — they fail from lack of trust. Learning to embrace healthy friction turns conflict into connection, feedback into growth, and work relationships into real human partnerships.
Call to Action
If this conversation lit something up for you, don’t just let it fade. Come join me inside the Second Life Leader community on Skool. That’s where I share the frameworks, field reports, and real stories of reinvention that don’t make it into the podcast. You’ll connect with other professionals who are actively rebuilding and leading with clarity. The link is in the show notes—step inside and start building your Second Life today.
